Another thread about AI

[Blackhawk]

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Speaking of DoA, we've encountered groups that first attack and then flee and stand there. Even if we attack them again they flee some more and we can just ignore them, they will never attack us again in that mission. This sounds like a bug too.

It is a Bug, I'm pretty certain Gaile said somewhere that they were also looking into "Passive Mob Behaviour"

[WasAGuest]

Originally Posted by Thallandor

/start rant

I have the "pleasure" of bringing my monk through the game and it was an experience i can/will not soon forget. Unless playing through RoT with 60% DP is anywhere near the idea of Fun, then NIghtfall would have been a fantastic game indeed.

While in the Realm of torment, the self replicating mofos would ignore everyone in my party and target me first followed by a co-ordinated tactical assualt-spike, and subquently when i have accumulated DP, my monk would get spiked each time i am ressed, i was doing situps half the time i was there and at times i feel sad for my party of herohench since i was a rez sink and a liability for them and if they had a choice, i am sure they would have rage quit on me...

While many here would say: "Kiting FTW" however it has been mentioned before once you start kiting, your party auto disenages hence overall lowering the DPS of the party each time you kite giving the mofos more time to self replicate...

/end rant

This is the game breaker for me as my favorite char is a monk. When the mobs aggro me from off of radar the second the heroes/henchies engage via a flag drop; it was an obvious bug and resulted in many a /ragequit on my part.
This is made worse when reporting it and some poor fool would tell me to adapt to broken code. lol
Can't kite, as you said the AI breaks off and the Benny Hill begins.
The worst is when four groups (thanks to heroes/hench not obbeying or going "LEEEROY!" on me) of different "racial" mobs all are able to cooridnate perfect spikes on a single target.
Add to this single game breaker bug (and aggroing off of radar just because I'm the monk has got to be a bug) the other listed issues literally killed the game for me.. which brings the below to being the truth for me.

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

Think it also forced a lot of people to play something else instead and I guess this was noticed by Mr NC Soft in the monthly server stats and possibly forced A-net to do something about it after a month to avoid the other flop they had with another NC Soft game.

Yup, I quit playing. Hopped on now and then to "test" for fixes or various other possible situational bugs that came to mind. I only hope they are all cleared up for the Wintersday event. Been looking forward to it but the AI as is, is far to annoying and will ruin the event.

So I have to say with that, a "thank you" for working on a fix is wonderful news.

[boxterduke]

Have not finished reading the whole thread so not sure if this is mentioned or not but mobs also chase you or start attacking you as soon as you attack a ranger spirit that they have there.
Even if they are far away, as soon as you lay a hand on that spirit they come running for you.

[Tydra]

Originally Posted by boxterduke

Have not finished reading the whole thread so not sure if this is mentioned or not but mobs also chase you or start attacking you as soon as you attack a ranger spirit that they have there.
Even if they are far away, as soon as you lay a hand on that spirit they come running for you.

yea its been mentioned before, but cant harm to repeat such things
lol i actually abused that behaviour. in one of the torment missions there were 2 groups patrolling quite close to each other. one of em left a spirit far away and went to the 2nd group then. so i hit the spirit and they came back for me, out of range of the other group .. was a piece of cake then

[disarm76]

4 Hours (FOUR) trapping the Stygian Veil, and in the end (last tendril), all die except two of us...from the begging we knew we were doomed.
They just don't let go. Chase us all the way, everywhere.

FOUR hours and loosing in the end, because of stupid AI.
Now, that make me want to rush right in again...not.

oh, and we tried going separate ways...they just chase one until they kill him, and them cross half the map to kill the other! WTH?!?

[beanerman_99]

Gaile mentions several times about the difference between "bugs" and what the Developers call an "intended fix".

What I don't understand is why they would institute something in the game, like the crazy AI, that would render a key part of our user interface completely useless: the aggro bubble/safety bubble on our radars.

Look, these behaviors are NOT hard to reproduce. Players have posted exactly where they encounter it. There is no way the dev's are unable to reproduce what many, many players are experiencing in the game.

Stop the double talk and tell us straight out, Is the crazy monster AI (chasing, sensing, etc) intended or not? Simple question. Its either yes or no. Not, well.....remember back when we did so-and-so and you hated it but yadda yadda, and well.....we fix bugs but the AI is not bugged so...

[Big_Iron]

Originally Posted by disarm76

4 Hours (FOUR) trapping the Stygian Veil, and in the end (last tendril), all die except two of us...from the begging we knew we were doomed.
They just don't let go. Chase us all the way, everywhere.

FOUR hours and loosing in the end, because of stupid AI.
Now, that make me want to rush right in again...not.

oh, and we tried going separate ways...they just chase one until they kill him, and them cross half the map to kill the other! WTH?!?

I can only imagine your frustration. Actually, I can more than imagine it because I've suffered from similar issues. I think the best thing we can doing is provide Anet with documentation. Earlier in the thread Gaile said the developers were unable to duplicate the problem. I read this and immediately went out and duplicated it. I'm not implying that Gaile is lying or that the developers are incompetent, but they obviously need more specific examples. If we give them tons of screen shots and even movies of these incidents, they'll know that we're not overreacting to AI that is obviously bugged.

[Another Felldspar]

Yes, this is a major problem, especially in the Southern Shiverpeaks, but I have noticed it a few other places as well. One thing that hasn't been mentioned... If, when you approach the mob that has gone back to their original patrol point near dead party members, you have yourself targeted instead of a teammate, they do not automatically re-aggro. You can approach. As soon as a teammate is targeted for rebirth the monsters regain aggro and give chase. It's as if the corpse of the teammate is causing aggro when it is becoming "active" by being targeted, even though it will be teleported to the location of the caster and out of aggro range.

[birdfoot]

Perhaps you guys should try to list your observations in point form (ordered step-by-step manner) to act as instructions for replicating the scenario(s), and also state down the zone and what mobs are behaving strangely. That will hopefully be a more definitive way to help the devs or Gaile see which part of it doesn't correspond to the code. I've already uninstalled the game so can't contribute much to the observations.

More on-topic, I have also experienced the unxpected aggroing (which takes place a couple of aggro bubbles away) issues; kinda defeats the purpose of having an aggro circle which works as a detection range. In addition, I've noticed before that Kournan priests seems to be warriors-wannabes, chasing up and engaging enemies in the front line while party members are still at the back; felt really wierd (some folks at GWOnline.net have also raised this before).

Hope this gets fixed eventually so that you guys can go back to having fun the way GW was.

[beanerman_99]

Originally Posted by Ayelet Feldspar

Yes, this is a major problem, especially in the Southern Shiverpeaks, but I have noticed it a few other places as well. One thing that hasn't been mentioned... If, when you approach the mob that has gone back to their original patrol point near dead party members, you have yourself targeted instead of a teammate, they do not automatically re-aggro. You can approach. As soon as a teammate is targeted for rebirth the monsters regain aggro and give chase. It's as if the corpse of the teammate is causing aggro when it is becoming "active" by being targeted, even though it will be teleported to the location of the caster and out of aggro range.

Hmmmmm. This is a very interesting observation. I have not noticed it before. But monsters will chase and "re notice" you even without dead teammates. But it could mean something. Good find mate.

[WasAGuest]

Originally Posted by Ayelet Feldspar

Yes, this is a major problem, especially in the Southern Shiverpeaks, but I have noticed it a few other places as well. One thing that hasn't been mentioned... If, when you approach the mob that has gone back to their original patrol point near dead party members, you have yourself targeted instead of a teammate, they do not automatically re-aggro. You can approach. As soon as a teammate is targeted for rebirth the monsters regain aggro and give chase. It's as if the corpse of the teammate is causing aggro when it is becoming "active" by being targeted, even though it will be teleported to the location of the caster and out of aggro range.

Would also explain the insta-flee bug when you call certain targets and they begin the "Benny Hill" before they even take a hit.

Maybe unlinking the mobs "ESP" from the targeting code?

I also wonder why such changes are made that are generally "less" fun and then expecting the player base to "adapt" and go with it... this makes no since to me. GW is a form of entertainment. I bought it to be entertained. If my satelite (another source of entertainment) suddenly changed it's line up to something I didn't like, I know they wouldn't sit there and ask me to "adapt and get used to it". Loosely connected I know but being that both are there to entertain me, they do and are alike in that manner...

It also means that if a form of entertainment no longer entertains me, I'll take my cash elsewhere to where I am entertained, not stay and "get used to it". I want my fun when I have time for fun, not on someone elses schedule... just a thought on the matter.

[Fay Vert]

Originally Posted by Memnon

I always thought this was a feature that Anet intended, not a bug, so I found new strategies to deal with those super-angry AI mobs. In other words I was forced to think more.

Yes, like, "I think I will go and play WoW instead"

[Feanixxx]

Quote from WoodyDotNet:
Earlier in the thread Gaile said the developers were unable to duplicate the problem. I read this and immediately went out and duplicated it. I'm not implying that Gaile is lying or that the developers are incompetent, but they obviously need more specific examples. If we give them tons of screen shots and even movies of these incidents, they'll know that we're not overreacting to AI that is obviously bugged.

I think Woody is being very generous – they’ve been many threads on several forums fully documenting these issues and the frustrations they are causing.

I’ve been a professional software consultant for over 20 years and have never once used the “cannot replicate the bug” excuse. Why? Because it sends the message to the client that I think they are either lying or stupid. Or both. Neither is conducive to income.

Instead I look at what they’ve sent me, get back to them promptly to tell them I’m on the case, request more documentation such as screenshots if I’m having problems finding the problem(s) and then I fix it. Cos it’s me job – it’s what I do. Otherwise don’t pay me.

Any software developer that uses the lazy “cannot replicate it” instantly loses any respect in my eyes. Of course, just like Woody, I'm not implying that Gaile is lying or that the developers are incompetent.

[Toll Booth Willie]

Can we not get the old AI back until they get a fix for the current AI?

Numerous fansites with numerous threads by numerous players complaining over and over about the AI and yet we are still being told to wait.... How about no. We are the customers and if you want any future sales how about fixing the game.

Go ask Star Wars Galaxy community what happens when the devs decide to screw up the game.
If its not broken don't fix it.

[RTSFirebat]

Originally Posted by Wheeler

This happened to me last night also. As soon as I would get anywhere near my dead party members, they would re-agro. We had to start over because the 3 live people couldn't get near the dead ones. Soon as we would break agro we would wait til the mob had moved back to their original spot, take a few steps towards them and here they would come again. Also, if you die and rez and then try to slip by the the mob that you had agro'd they will re-agro from a mile away.

Yep, this is the problem I had last night. I was doing "Return of the Undead King", a quest where there are some massive groups of mobs. My henchmen got killed like always and I ran off.

I tired again and again to res then, but the mobs would chase after me even when I was WAY out of the range of their aggro circle, I even tired waiting for them to walk far away on patrol, no luck.

A.net has broken the aggro somehow, and it is annoying.

[Priceykins]

This bug has been in existence for a long time.

I noticed it alot with coldifres in UW well before the new ai, both when trapping and 55/ssing, and I still notice it to this day when trapping.

It happens fairly often outside the UW aswell, with mobs aggroing from even outside the minimap distance, which is just wrong, unless of course the ai has secretly developed tracking bugs which are placed on us players in a mellee, I knew those crafty summit were up to something

[RTSFirebat]

Originally Posted by Priceykins

This bug has been in existence for a long time.

Maybe, but in over my 1000 hours worth of gametime, I've never seen mobs reaggro a returning party member even after they have moved away.

[Verek]

Hi all,

I hope this is not off topic, so sorry in advance if it.

So, doing the last mission in Prophesies the other day, we had 5 ’real’ players and others were Hero’s. The team was all casters but me, I was a Wammo. (sorry but only Monk skill I use is rebirth, primary character is a Necro.)

I wont spoil it by saying what monsters we were up against but lets just say that you wouldn’t expect a level 28 thingy with other level 24’s around it to display this behaviour.

I’m at the lead of the party, trying to pull this ’monster’ towards me…….and this is the conversation I had in my head when observing it’s actions:

Me ’ Ugg, me big warrior, you fight!’

Monster ‘Oh boy, you do seem to have a rather large sword in your hand, not sure whether I shall this time.’

Me ‘Grrrrr, me coming to get you………’

Monster ‘Stop, that hurts, don’t you know that your sword’s sharp and pointy and that you could do something a serious injury with that.’

Me ’Baby, stop running away.’

Monster (Thinking this as it runs away) ’I know, I’ll use my telepathic ability and see which character has the most death penalty. Oh yes it that E/M that’s standing well back and out of my agro bubble. Ho hum will go and kill him, even though I have this Warrior slamming sword attacks into my side.’

/end sarcasm

For me this was a laugh, but for our poor E/M this spoilt his game as everything just attacked him regardless of where he stood.

This cannot be the correct behaviour, fortunately for us he was very philosophical about it, but many, many players would have ‘rage quit’ and we have quite enough of that already.

[Ninna]

Originally Posted by Verek

Monster (Thinking this as it runs away) ’I know, I’ll use my telepathic ability and see which character has the most death penalty. Oh yes it that E/M that’s standing well back and out of my agro bubble. Ho hum will go and kill him, even though I have this Warrior slamming sword attacks into my side.’

AI has always preferred casters - especially monks
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3150457

Originally Posted by Jeff Strain

The challenge with the monsters is you want them to act intelligently, but we can make them act so intelligently that you're hosed.

The reason they attack your healers is because if they're even moderately smart, they know that that's the best and fastest way to hit you.

I'm not sure what the AI has for priority of targetting but the AI does seem aware whos going to die the fastest or target casters

[Verek]

I can understand the monsters attacking Monks, but they all just seem to attack the caster with the highest DP, how did they know?